User talk:AdlaiT

Jump to navigation Jump to search

About this board

Not editable

Wiki admin.

My user talk page is for wiki-related business/discussion.

Please post any of your gameplay questions on the appropriate wiki discussion page.

About the use of italics and parentheses

Hakazumi (talkcontribs)

After "uses" has been replaced by "consumes", italic text was no longer being used to denote such conditions. In the recent days, this choice of text decoration made its unceremonial return. I request a confirmation on the proper style application.
(Consumes 20% of current HP.) or (Consumes 20% of current HP.)

In game, certain additional effects are written in parentheses. Example of such is Zeta (Water)'s echo from S1. Said parentheses were removed from her page. I request an explanation regarding as to when they're to be kept and when they're to be removed.

Hakazumi (talkcontribs)

I'd also like to know for what reason an additional "s" is recently added after certain statuses. Be it the fault of my display settings, but any text added right after the status appears slightly misaligned. It hasn't been commonly used like this for statuses, for as long as I can remember, so I can't help but question its purpose.

Dashi (talkcontribs)

On my side: Italics: Both versions still exist here and there, I followed class styles which remain italicized. Pages also stil use "uses" so it'd be nice if things were swiped eventually, and the official stance written on a manual of style of sorts. Some characters have parenthesis on conditional effects, some don't, same as above, I've removed the parenthesis on recent patch's (and sister pages) as we use bold letters instead which make it clear enough. Besides there's no rhyme or reason for in-game parenthesis use. We often use parenthesis to append data or clarify an effect, which clashes entirely with conditional effect's parenthesis use. Again I don't particularly care either or but this makes it clearer to readers without significant work on our part, which'd be the point of maintaining a wiki: Improving upon uncertain ingame's uncertain data by adding numbers and clarifying conditions as well as making that data a clear read so people have no doubts on whether they understood it wrong or not. I've added the s' because without them the sentences they were added to are missing an s. The game itself does this at on and off as I recall (again). Most status effects as we present them are formatted to facilitate reading and comprehension (same as above point) as well as are included in conjugation which is often seen in class pages and strategy pages. The ingame text on these, since they often don't use the status names but refer to them in broad strokes often use pluralized terms when applicable. The most textbook case I can recall would be the crests themselves, while ammo systems go right behind. See Percival (Light) in-game for an example of both in use in the same go.

Since you've bothered to proxy me a message via Discord: I've no real incentive to reply to a question made to Adlai and not to me, nor do we work via consensus but via administrative order, so whatever Adlai and other admins decide on any of the situations is fine by me, therefore just deal directly with them and they'll forward me whatever's the result after, kay?

Hakazumi (talkcontribs)

Parenthesis such as Water Zeta's were on her page, because that's how the game describes the skill. Even if it's unnecessary, hers wasn't the only page which kept them. If they're to be removed now, it should be noted down for the editors to know.
Other character pages untouched by this change would need to be reviewed afterwards.

Very few in-game character entries still have "uses" instead of "consumes". I'm aware that on wiki there are even more pages like that, than there are in-game.
Nonetheless, the use of italics is something I asked about before in the past, and was told they're not needed, so I've been removing them whenever I saw them.
I didn't do sweep of all character pages, because I didn't deem it important enough. No one asked me or said they expected me to do so either.
If they're to be added to the pages again, that also should be noted down. This is wiki-orignating addition that can't be found in-game, as the in-game descriptions lack such text decorations.

As for pluralizing statuses - this is, again, something that should be noted down if other editors were to follow it. Just this time not because it's something wiki-original, but because it hasn't been used like this before at least on character pages (that follow the unwritten guideline more strictly than other pages thanks to the admins who correct them from time to time).
Your attempts at changing the text to make note of the plural forms has been undone by adlai before (example 1 | example 2), but not from all pages you added them to. If the other edits were overseen, then it'd seem as if you are the only person who would need to get notified to not add them anymore. If these other edits were to stay, while the ones that were undone remained so, the distinction between what should and what shouldn't be pluralized needs to be stated clearly.

Hakazumi (talkcontribs)

While we're on this topic, I once again ask for the Manual of Style pages to be linked on sidebar +- the main page.
Feels like it's been months since I last mentioned it, so simply waiting clearly isn't cutting it. Naturally, I don't mean just the MoS for character pages.
If they're seen by people, the probability of them getting an update, either because people would be asking questions if x shouldn't be there or them adding y the pages, should be higher.

If the 3 issues above would be explained, they could be the first things to be added to the character-pages-specific MoS page.

Speaking of which, why isn't the general MoS page Meta:Manual_of_Style linking to its subpages, like the Meta:Manual_of_Style/Character_Pages?

Question Regarding Versus Yuel's Color References.

TBC1 (talkcontribs)

If there's a source stating them read no further, and I'd just ask to see it. If not I'm going to lay out my confusion on how color 10 is an Elmot reference over a Yukata Anthuria Reference.

Looking at the primary color, the black is a warmer more saturated black. Elmot's is noticeably less saturated. Going in and comparing the colors, Yukata Anthuria's fits and Elmot's sticks out. This color is pretty much exactly what Anthuria's Yukata outfit's is. On hair color, Elmot's hair is darker than color 10 in fact both are due to the way versus is, but Anthuria's is closer to the lighter hair color. This could go either way. Big thing next. Elmot's eyes are orange-yellow. Color 10 is red. Anthuria's eyes are red. The white coloration on the clothing can be relayed to the white pattern in Yukata Anthuria. Elmot's only outfit with white is his Blazing Teacher version. Next the tail. It starts red and goes orange. This mimics the fire tail design of Anthuria's base version, and that design was carried over into her Yukata version. Elmot doesn't really have anything here aside from the flame motif they both share. The gold hair decorations fits Anthuria's which while less pronounced in her Yukata version still is present. Elmot has a gold trim on his hood. It's a toss up but thematically it fits Anthuria more. Which happens because Anthuria is also a dancer, making it far more likely she'd get a reference in Yuel's colors than Elmot. Ultimately this is my stance on why it is not Elmot but rather Anthuria. In closing the biggest arguments here are the Eye colors, the tail colors, the day and night color difference with the black, and the fact that Anthuria being a dancer makes her getting a reference far more plausible than Elmot.

Lithe (talkcontribs)

I don't believe there's any hard evidence one way or the other, but a couple reasons why this could be Elmott instead of Anthuria's Yukata version:

- If Anthuria (or any 'other' character) were to be referenced, it's more likely that a character's default version would be used over alternate versions (for brand/recognition reasons)
- Yuel and Elmott both share "cooking food with their flame powers" (Yuel with her pillow kebabs, Elmott in Auguste)

I don't believe we've seen/identified any examples of a 'cameo palette' referencing another character's non-default, so if this does happen to be Anthuria's Yukata version it would be atypical.

TBC1 (talkcontribs)

Yeah, but it could be an exception. If it's not why then would the eye color be different than Elmott's? Why wouldn't they go with a solid red tail or be red with a slightly different shade of red at the tip like Societte's solid white tail, instead of one that goes from red to orange mirroring Anthuria's clothing design? I'm pretty sure them both being dancers would be a stronger connection and reason for a reference than cooking food with their flame powers. Also since fighting games typically have red, blue and green color pallet options they would end up with that as a reference to Anthuria's base, but her Yukata outfit is better thematically and allows for that separate red color. In fact looking at the characters referenced, it being Elmott would be out of place. On rules, Djeeta, Gran and Soriz are the only ones if I'm correct to have a non purchase able color that's a reference. So they could have done that, but for the aforementioned reasons it's more likely they opted for Yukata. I don't think they really have hard set rules aside from the colors 9-13 being mostly references. (Even that isn't true because Gran and Kat only has two within that.) This could just be the start of referencing character's alternate versions.

AdlaiT (talkcontribs)

Hi TBC, thanks for bringing this up in a civil manner.

Color #10 was very briefly discussed by some wiki staff and there was no general consensus on whether it could be Anthuria (Yukata) or Elmott. #10's eye color is not red, but instead leans more towards orangey-brown with yellow highlights.

That's mostly the reason why I put Elmott on the page, but even then I'm not 100% convinced.

For now, I'm going to remove the color reference until a better consensus is made.

--AdlaiT (talk) - Wiki Admin 10:47, 15 December 2020 (CET)

Sorry for putting up that field effect entry just when you put up one,too.

AsrielV (talkcontribs)

I hope you can make use of my screenshots and fix up the post :D

AdlaiT (talkcontribs)

Some of those images can actually be used on the Field Effects page instead. Some of what you explained is not exclusive to Proving Grounds.

--AdlaiT (talk) - Wiki Admin 09:24, 28 October 2020 (CET)

Thanks for the ev_element correction

Memoriast (talkcontribs)

Sorry for removing ev_element from the Dread Barrage drop tables. Thank you for letting me know!

Method to edit protected pages?`

Aka-dit (talkcontribs)


If one wanted to make an edit to a protected page, how would one go about doing so? Is there a method of proposing an edit which is approved (kinda like git merging?), or can you ask for permission to protected pages, or do you need a senior member to vouch for you?

AdlaiT (talkcontribs)

It depends on what the page is. There actually aren't that many perma-protected pages on this wiki. Generally, Modules are protected for safety reasons.

If there is something on a protected page that needs attention, then either bringing it up on a discussion page or discussing it on the wiki Discord would be fine.

Raid bosses' ATK

Sonickles9 (talkcontribs)

Since there is now a template for raids that show enemies' ATK and there is a neat tooltip with estimated damage values, I'd like to know:

- Where can I get the ATK values for a raid?

- Suppose I were to estimate a raid boss' ATK, what is the correct way to do it?

AdlaiT (talkcontribs)

Enemy ATK isn't viewable in any json, so it needs to be calculated by using damage recorded from battle. The ATK values we've used on the wiki so far have been taken from GameWith.

Unfortunately, I don't do this type of data collection, so I'm not the person to ask. I'm sure there's someone else out there that can help you.

--AdlaiT (talk) - Wiki Admin 05:37, 12 August 2020 (CEST)

Voice Files for Raids

Hakazumi (talkcontribs)

Since you're probably gonna message me about it sooner or later anyway, I might as well start the thread.
So, what's the opinion about including all files?
If they're gonna stay, they need better header for sure. "Unassigned" is pretty misleading.
It should go without saying but this could end up affecting character pages as well.

AdlaiT (talkcontribs)

Unused files have been included in Xeno Sagittarius's page for almost 3 years and no one has complained about that.

Xeno Sagittarius Clash#Unknown

If there is clear evidence of sloppiness (that is, no verification/confirmation, assigning alternate unused files with voice lines that are actually used, etc.), then that is not acceptable.

It's not okay to mass upload unused character voice lines though, only to avoid issues with wiki backups. Backups of the entire wiki get made on a regular basis and sound/music files are a huge chunk of the file size.

Unused boss voice files are fine for now since there aren't a lot compared to characters. If it gets out of hand, then it can be reassessed.

--AdlaiT (talk) - Wiki Admin 08:18, 2 May 2020 (CEST)

Revertion of some informations

Croquelune (talkcontribs)

Hi, I need some explanations from you.

Here, "and" assume it's only either be Fire and Light. That's wrong it can also be both in the same charge attack and this info is lost. It's have its importance since characters or summons with elemental barrier (i.e. Lily or Fire/Light Carbuncle) could be totally or partially inefficient depending of the case. So strategy using phallanx or full barrier should be prefer against it.

There, you omitted the information about the foe increasing of attack damage power. I suspect due to the trigger. But it might be enmity or number turns system to be honest ; I didn't tested enought to know where it comes from but it was there and the difference of ~2000 damage for the same DEF between the beginning and the and the end of the fight is important enought to warn beginners about that (in order to maybe keep their CA to nuker it at the end of fight and avoid losing characters). I'll check next time to be sure, cause to be honest I forgot my party comp but I didn't remember had any DEF boost or shield and nothing but the trigger could explain the different values of the foe attack damage (from my memories).

Also notice you change the number of hit to multi-hit, like here. It can have its importance because it gives an idea if the foe charge attack can be countered or substituted or if it should just be widely tanked and not trying funny things with it.

Formatting for the purpose of formatting is not necessarily a good thing, especially if useful informations are lost.

Edit: Thanks for impurity thought, totally forgot that was part of the status effect.

AdlaiT (talkcontribs)

Hi Croquelune.

First, I think you're completely mixing up what "and" and "or" mean in English.

  • "Fire and Light" means "both Fire and Light"
  • "Fire or Light" means "only Fire or only Light".

Unless you have video evidence of the 25% trigger being only Fire damage or only Light damage, putting "or" for that special attack would be incorrect.

As far as damage edit, the main issue was the English grammar. Most bosses have an enmity effect and that can be summarized in a single bullet.

--AdlaiT (talk) - Wiki Admin 01:54, 31 March 2020 (CEST)

Sub Ally Support Skills Page

Kirostyle (talkcontribs)

Hello! I made a page compiling Sub Ally Support skills because the auto-generated category page Category:Sub Ally Support Skills was not informative enough and does not allow people to read the support skills at all. I wanted a page where they could easily be read and CTRL-F'd. I spent a couple hours making this for my crew and other users. I understand that it won't auto-update like the category page, but it has a lot more information, much like how pages like Veil/Dispel/Clear/Jammed/Strength do not auto-update with characters. However, my page keeps getting merged with the category page by another member. I was not intending for it to replace the category page, but rather for them to co-exist since they were under different URLs. I was told that I should ask you what you thought, otherwise I would have to host it on my own userpage instead. Thank you!

AdlaiT (talkcontribs)

The current category page isn't auto-generated either. An automated solution is possible, but not sure when that can be implemented.

For now, the Sub Ally Support Skill page that you made can stay regardless of what Hakazumi has already said or done (they are not a wiki mod). I'm hoping you can keep that page updated in the meantime.

--AdlaiT (talk) - Wiki Admin 06:26, 12 January 2020 (CET)

Kirostyle (talkcontribs)

I appreciate it greatly! I had planned to go back and update it whenever a new applicable character is released. Thank you so much!!!

Regarding Thorny Rose's edit

5 (talkcontribs)

First of all, I didn't delete the template on purpose (and I still have no idea what these templates are), I specifically copied a single line of Holiday Rosetta's ougi codes from gbf wiki itself and pasted it to Thorny Rose's "Edit source" page as I believed the Armored stats value to be the same numbers.

If I understand correctly, that single line is changed by Hakazumi to include the weapon template. Since he overwrote the codes with generally no explanation and no effort in his summary line on what needs to be done, I was unable to understand fully on what he wanted. What are templates? What is the 'validation' needed? Is the 100 attacks spreadsheet insufficient, and thus the numbers needed to be validated with more accuracy?

I don't know sure if this is the first time you're dealing with some anon guy trying to add stuff, but creating a page (or if it already exists, can you just please link people to that)

a) Explains templates and what they do, and why they must not be deleted

b) Explain that figures should be backed up by references and links

c) Link that article every time in that Edit page so that any newcomers know what they should and should not add.

Finally, Hakazumi clearly changed it to ~70%/~30% in his edit and didn't think that 100 hits was an acceptable sample to justify 70%/30%. I linked to my sources in my summary lines each time I edited and even put a talk page on his username. Seems like he couldn't take the time to explain himself in detail until an admin came along, and even added an excuse to defend himself. (talkcontribs)

In any case, my current goal is just to request for a "newcomer link" on what things should be added and not touched in the edit source page. If possible remove this topic once it is done, I shouldn't singled out Hakazumi out like that. I sort of lost my cool and I apologize.

Midokuni (talkcontribs)

I just happened to see this in the recent updates page but 100 samples really isn't enough for accuracy. 100 samples would fall more under an estimate rather than a fact. Something something statistics that i forgot the term of but it should be in the how to determine character base ma Meta wiki page (a link to calculate how many samples needed with a specified margin of error).

Midokuni (talkcontribs)

ok just saw the talk page in haka's talk page the armor % is pretty easy to calculate since if you're lucky it only needs 2/4 samples the chance part is where it gets annoying since theres nothing we can do about it other than do it multiple times while logging. I took the time to look at the link I mentioned and here it is: WolframAlpha with a margin of error of 5% (0.05) and a 90% confidence level we would need ~230 samples to say that 70% is reliable

AdlaiT (talkcontribs)

Technically, the spreadsheet you submitted is insufficient. But since weapons tend to be untested, I allowed it for now. It can be changed/updated when more accurate data is submitted.

--AdlaiT (talk) - Wiki Admin 19:52, 6 December 2019 (CET)